MPs grill ‘sorry’ Fujitsu boss as Alan Bates slams compensation delays

Closing the session with Paul Patterson, director of Europe’s Fujitsu Services Limited, and Nick Read, Post Office boss, MP Liam Byrne, who is charing the committee, says the pair have left members feeling “fairly shocked” by their evidence, or lack of.

He says: “You have left us I think feeling fairly shocked, you’ve not been able to supply the committee with key events in the timeline such as when the Post Office first knew that remote access was possible.

“You’ve told us that you haven’t kept evidence safe about what money was paid to you inappropriate and therefore what is owed back and you can’t estimate the scale of compensation

“We are grateful for the moral committment from Fujitsu that they will share in the compensation payment but that leaves us many questions which we need to put to the minister which is the subject of our next session.”

Post Office minister Kevin Hollinrake has finished giving evidence – we’ll now provide posts recapping on the highlights of today’s session while covering the Post Office Inquiry happening elsewhere today.

Kevin Hollinrak told MPs “we’re determined to slim down the bureaucracy” surrounding compensation for subpostmasters.

He said he is working with the compensation advisory board on “how we can expedite payments”.

“If you look at all the schemes, they are very slow at the start, but that’s the way these schemes are because it takes a while to start filling the pipeline.”

But, he said, full and final settlements were made for most claimants that applied in the original timescale.

“It’s not as if people sit around doing nothing.”

Carl Creswell, director at the Department for Business and Trade, said: “We aren’t sitting there with a large number of unprocessed claims.”

Postal minister Kevin Hollinrake said the situation was “heart breaking” but there is “nervousness” to open compensation scheme up to families.

He said it would “hugely increase the scope and complexity” of compensation schemes: “It wouldn’t be an easy thing to do to open it up to family members”.

Post Office Minister Kevin Hollinrake has admitted the government failed to grasp the scale of the Horizon scandal in the past.

He says: “I don’t think we’ve been sufficiently challenging, no. I mean, I think this wouldn’t have happened or it would have been resolved earlier if we’d been more challenging earlier.”

He continues: “I’m not going to blame any one of my predecessors specifically, but clearly we could have done better.”

Earlier, he said he expected legislation that will overturn the wrongful convictions of hundreds of Post Office operators to be presented “within weeks”.

Sitting before the committee, Mr Hollinrake is asked for a date for when all of those still awaiting financial redress will receive it.

He says: “I very much hope to hope that will be by August.”

But he adds: “It’s not a deadline. It’s an ambition we want to deliver this scheme by.”

Asked why the Post Office “dragged its feet”, boss Nick Read blames a lack of understanding and curiosity for what was happening for there being resistance and delay in settling compensation claims from victim postmasters.

He added: “I want to ensure everyone in the organisation sees and understands what has been going on – that wasn’t the case when I joined in 2019.”

He added that he believes Fujitsu should help in paying copmensation to victims.

Over at the Horizon IT inquiry, it is revealed that Fujitsu executives knew that faults with the system could lead to legal challenges as early as 2008.

In an email presented as evidence to the inquiry, a Fujitsu executive said: “If we do not fix this problem our spreadsheets presented in court are liable to be brought into doubt if duplicate transactions are spotted.”

In a 2008 email under the heading “benefits and risks”, Fujitsu executive, Graham Welsh, said “If we cannot better identify where data integrity can or cannot be guaranteed then we are in breach of contract and may be fined heavily.”

Post Office boss, Nick Read told MPs that the Post Office is “committed to get off Horizon” and they want a “new and upgraded” system.

He called the current Horizon system “clunky, outdated and old”, telling MPs: “We need a modern system for a modern post office, and we will be getting off Horizon”.

The Horizon IT system is accounting software, designed by Fujitsu, which saw accounts automated after subpostmasters entered their sales figures via a touchscreen.

Post Office prosecuted more than 700 operators for offences such as theft and false accounting based on the information from Horizon between 1999 and 2015.

The convictions against the postmasters were done through private proseuctions by the Post Office.

Post Office boss Nick Read has said he does not think that the organisation will perform any more in the future.

“I don’t think the Post Office would want to carry out private prosecutions,” he told the Business and Trade Committee.

“I’ve been very clear on my watch they won’t and I see no reason why they should continue to do so.”